Julieta: Claude and Camille is a poignant description of the love between Monet and his first wife, Camille. After bearing him two children, she died at the young age of thirty-two. I love protagonists who have secrets. What was most challenging or revelatory about writing Camille's secrets?

 

Stephanie Cowell: First, I'd like to say that Camille came to the page slowly. There is so little known about her character because it is believed Monet's second wife may have thrown away Camille's diaries and letters. Monet also did not keep things. So as a novelist, I spent hours and hours looking at the portraits of her by Monet to find her. He never painted anyone again so much. Her character formed  from two young women I had known in my twenties. One lived a kind of dramatic life, on the edge of reality. She seemed larger than life. She died young and had secrets. The second young woman made up her life to be fantastical. Soon she did not know what was true and was often confused. Friends did not know what they could believe. 

 

Julieta: You convey with great pathos Monet's poverty at the beginning of his career, and how his father refused to help him. Later in the novel, unable to support himself, Camille, and their infant son (Is this correct? Do they already have a son?), Monet attempts suicide. What was your experience writing about Monet's attempted suicide? How did you approach such a dark moment in his life?

 

Stephanie Cowell: This was a very hard scene to write, very painful. In actual life he threw himself in the river, but I altered it to cutting his wrists. He did have a son then and a wife, and he couldn't make money with his paintings and did not know else to do to support them. He came to Paris determined to conquer the art world and sometimes was thrown from his rooms for not paying the rent. I found the scene so painful when I first wrote it that I cut it out and when my book was in production with Random House, I told my editor I wanted to put it back in. Several great artists have ended their lives young when rejected and hungry for year after year. 

 

 

Julieta: Monet found solace and purpose in the landscapes he painted. Did immersing yourself in his world and his relationship with nature provide sustenance during your six-year journey with this book?"

 

Stephanie Cowell: I totally immersed myself in his world. I had of course about 75 books and visited museums in several countries and went twice to Giverny, his final home an hour or two outside Paris where he build his immortal gardens which remain today. I used to walk in the park and by flower beds in NYC where I live and try to see them through his eyes. I used to walk down to the river and watch the changing light on the water. When I signed off on the final draft with my editor, I walked down to the river and sat there just stunned. The novel has a huge scope. In addition to his story, it tells the whole story of the hungry young artists who formed the Impressionist movement. Looking back at the book now, I don't know how I had the perseverance to do it! 

 

Julieta: Your title, The Erotic Margin, links sexuality with spatiality. Antoine-Ignace Melling's depiction of the harem is, except for the two women kissing, an asexual space. In your view, what led Melling to portrait the harem in such a way?

 

IRVIN C. SCHICK: I can think of two main reasons. One is that his close association with the imperial household (especially the sultan's sister) impelled him to be cautious. The two women kissing was already fairly bold and I think he just chose to leave it at that. And secondly, his goal was different in this book. His approach was meant to be "objective," almost clinical. Orientalist productions spanned a spectrum from the most "scientific" to the most sensationalist. This book's claim was to scientific objectivity.

 

Julieta: Your research often highlights the Western tendency to depict the Islamic world as a place of confined, hidden, or purely passive female sexuality (as in the harem). Did you find any counter-narratives or evidence of agency among women within these spatial limits during the late eighteenth century? 

 

 IRVIN C. SCHICK: Most certainly. I have just finished translating an important Ottoman erotic manuscript in the David Collection (Copenhagen) and hopefully it will be published next Spring. In it, women are depicted as sexually voracious tricksters. This aspect was introduced into orientalism in part through Galland's translation of the 1001 Nights.

As I mentioned in The Erotic Margin, orientalist discourse was extremely inconsistent, and its success is that it was able to pass all these contradictory statements simultaneously as fact. Women are both sexually passive and sexually voracious. Can these statements both be true? According to orientalism, they are.

 

Julieta: Antoine-Ignace Melling served as an architect for the Ottoman court, which granted him an unprecedented "insider's eye," as praised by Orhan Pamuk. Given that Melling's Bosphorus depictions are transnational and transcultural, do you believe that his drawings elude the central sexual and spatial critique of your Erotic Margin?   

 

IRVIN C. SCHICK: No, I don't think so. If you look carefully at Melling's drawings, you see that they are extremely orderly, quite perfect. You do not see the mess and disorder that you would expect in a major metropolis, which Istanbul certainly was at the time. His vision of Istanbul is almost antiseptic. He has made the city perfect, and in so doing, he has constructed a certain space that had little to do with reality. So while his vision of the city is different from the vision of many others, it is no more accurate.

 

 

 JULIETA: In the spirit of Thomas Jefferson's maxim, 'we are all created equal,' how does your novel, Becoming Madam Secretary, address the modern conservative movement's emphasis on traditional gender roles and the family? Specifically, what does Frances Perkins do to combat child labor and protect immigrants in the United States?

 

STEPHANIE DRAY: On the subject of gender roles, there's been a tension in our country since before Jefferson wrote those words. Frances Perkins knew that when the Declaration of Independence was being contemplated, Abigail Adams beseeched her husband to Remember the Ladies. And that Frances' own kinswoman, Mercy Otis Warren was defying traditional gender roles with her work as a playwright and historian. Frances herself strove always to expand the opportunity of women in this country by paving a path in public service. 

It is then a historical irony that her work in combatting child labor and the exploitation of workers helped to enable a return to "traditional gender roles" in the aftermath of WWII. Without regulations, the industrial age necessitated women and even children in the workforce. The industrial machine also ground down the men with such hazardous working conditions and such unreasonable working hours that they were unable to participate in a traditional family even if they chose to. Only the upper classes could afford to live off one salary. So, by combatting child labor, protecting male and female workers against exploitation and supporting FDR's broader New Deal Vision, including a high tax rate on the wealthy, Frances and her liberal policies made it possible for many American families to aspire to the 1950s single-breadwinner model now idealized by the modern conservative movement.

 

JULIETA: Your novels, Dear Hamilton and America's First Daughter, portray women like Elizabeth Schuyler and Martha 'Patsy' Jefferson who helped shape the identity of a fledgling nation. How do their stories and remarkable influence continue to inspire your thinking in our modern, ever-evolving world?

 

STEPHANIE DRAY: The founding mothers I write about lived through extreme change, trauma and tragedy. All of them took their sorrows and poured it into public service in one way or another. And they serve to remind us that behind the men who made history were also the women making history and getting little credit for it. Their courage, their sacrifices, and their example always inspires me to look for more women just like them in the modern world.

 

JULIETA: In Ribbons of Scarlet, your heroine Sophie de Grouchy reads Voltaire and Rousseau and abhors the perceived injustices of King Louis XVI's court. Given her story, how do you see her legacy as a model for strengthening America's democracy today? Additionally, which historical heroine would you choose to continue spreading the message of the U.S. Constitution, and why?

 

STEPHANIE DRAY: Sophie de Grouchy believed that empathy was not just a virtue but the cornerstone of justice. Her insistence on aligning reason with compassion offers a model for democratic renewal today—one rooted in listening, learning, and recognizing our shared humanity. If I could choose another historical heroine to continue her mission, it might well be Frances Perkins once again. She lived Sophie's ideals, proving that empathy can survive even in the rough-and-tumble of politics.

 

JULIETA: The author Gustave Flaubert once famously asserted that a writer needs a boring life to produce a significant body of work. Considering your own life with your husband, cats, and history books, how do you feel about this idea? Do you believe a quiet, focused existence is essential to the creative process?

 

STEPHANIE DRAY: Hah! I do have a boring quiet life, so I wonder why I don't write faster. You would think I'd be more productive, but it takes me a long time to research and produce a book of quality. I'm just lucky that readers appreciate the time and effort.

 

JULIETA: Finally, what role do you believe historical fiction can play in these conflict-ridden times in the United States? How can it inspire future generations who are often preoccupied with social media and the 'here and now'?  

 

STEPHANIE DRAY: I have said it before, but I must repeat it here. Historical fiction is emphatically an exercise in empathy. It invites readers to step outside the noise of the present and into the heartbeat of another time. It reminds us that every era has wrestled with division, change, and uncertainty. But it also warns us against complacency. By walking in the shoes of those who came before us, we discover not only how far we've come, but how easily we can slip backwards. And that the fight never ends. That there are many principles that must be fought for every single day. Win or lose. Because even if we don't achieve our goals in our own lifetime, we are paving a path for others in the future to make the world a better place.

This interview was promoted by the American Club of Lisbon and took place at Grémio Literário on June 24, 2025. It was followed by a lively discussion.
 
The themes under debate were the following:

 I. Andrew O'Shaughnessy and his enduring affection for Portugal

 

Andrew and visits to Portugal during his childhood.

 

The non-existent discussion in British Schools, as Andrew grew up, of the American Revolution.
 

II. Jefferson's Vision for the University of Virginia

 

How The Illimitable Freedom of the Human Mind, published in 2021, broke new ground.

 

What personally impressed Andrew about Thomas Jefferson's founding of UVA.

 

Details of Jefferson inviting prospective UVA students to dine with him at Monticello. About Feasts of Reason and Human Happiness.

 

How UVA and the 'Academical Village' anticipated what later became the norm of the American University.

 

Reasons why Jefferson considered the founding of UVA one of his three major accomplishments (together with the Declaration of Independence and the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom). 
 
Jefferson's UVA as an essential American institution for democracy.
 
Jefferson, architecture, the Rotunda, and democracy.
 

 

III. The bond between Thomas Jefferson and his friendship with Abbé Correia da Serra
 
The Abbé's recurring visits to Monticello.
 
The Abbé's contribution to advising Jefferson with founding UVA.
 
Richard Beale Davis's book, The Abbé Correia in América, and its Portuguese translation with an introduction by Professor José Luis Cardoso.

 
IV. Jefferson, the Enlightenment, and the Paradox of Slavery.
 
Jefferson as a major exponent of Enlightenment in America. Slavery at Monticello, Sally Hemings, and Jefferson's non-white children.
 
What Jefferson is saying from the grave on the current administration's attack on major universities such as Columbia, my alma mater.
 
Jefferson's current reputation in the USA, and its fluctuation over time.
 
The 'Educated Citizenry,' and Jefferson's democratic ideals.

Dear Professor Leandro Correia,

 

I very much enjoyed the talk about your non-fiction book, O Processo dos Távoras, that took place at Palácio Fronteira in Lisbon, on January 16, 2025.

 

After the so-called attempt on the life of King José of Portugal - D. Maria I's father - the Távora family, the Duke of Aveiro, and a few commoners were slaughtered under the orders of the Marquis de Pombal, King José's Prime Minister.

 

The proceedings were reviewed under D. Maria I of Portugal, in an attempt to rehabilitate the memory of the Távora Family and the Duke of Aveiro.

 

I would like to briefly dwell on a couple of issues that you presented to the enthusiastic audience that day.

 

Julieta Rodrigues: You spoke of 11 gunmen firing at King José of Portugal on that ominous day of September 3, 1758. I have only heard of two or three gunmen.

 

May I ask where did you find this information?

In all, do we know how many shots were fired?

 

Professor Leandro Correia: A questão dos onze atiradores encontra-se no chamado "Processo Condenatório" ou "Processo Pombalino". Um processo claramente manipulado pela máquina jurídica montada pelo Marquês de Pombal, Sebastião José de Carvalho e Melo. A referência aos 11 cavaleiros foi uma forma de associar os membros da família Távora que interessava eliminar. O Duque de Aveiro acabou por referir mais pessoas do que as que realmente estariam implicadas, uma vez que estava a falar sob tortura.

 

Deste modo, deve considerar-se que foram apenas dois ou três atiradores.

 

A questão do número de tiros levanta dúvidas, na minha opinião. Tendo em conta que a carruagem em que seguia D. José I se encontrava em movimento, e o momento ter causado surpresa, não é, de todo, claro se houve mais (ou menos) tiros do aqueles que, de facto, se conhecem e que são dois. O que se sabe - por uma carta da Rainha D. Mariana Vitória a sua mãe, no dia 17 de dezembro de 1958 - é que foram dois, como esta refere, "dois golpes de fogo quase à queima-roupa (...)".

 

Julieta Rodrigues: Many servants of the Duke of Aveiro, and his wife, were interrogated when the Távora Proceedings were reviewed. I'm interested in these commoners. What do you know about Lourença da Cruz, "A Black and Free woman"? We know she lived in Cardal da Graça in Lisbon. Is there a record of her interrogation? What does she say? Does she testify against or in favor of her former patrons?

 

Professor Leandro Correia: O depoimento de Lourença da Cruz "Mulher preta e livre", moradora no Cardal da Graça, em Lisboa, criada da Duquesa de Aveiro, foi uma das testemunhas arroladas pelo Marquês de Alorna e Fronteira no chamado "Processo Revisório", autorizado pela Rainha D. Maria I. O testemunho dela é muito sóbrio e lúcido quanto a toda esta história. O depoimento de Lourença da Cruz é claramente um depoimento revisionista, portanto, a favor da inocência, sobretudo da família Távora. Não se refere ao Duque de Aveiro.

Do seu depoimento, destaco o seguinte ""[...]antes do ferimento que se disse feito a sua Magestade se perparavão na caza da mesma Duqueza vestidos e mascaras e se ensayavão contradanças para hirem a hũas festas de touros da banda d'alem nas quais entrava Luis Bernardo de Tavora que sempre levava comsigo o rebeca Andre e vio ella testemunha que na noute em que se dicerão feitos os ditos ferimentos ao acender das luzes pouco mais ou menos, fora o ditto Luis Bernardo com o referido rebeca e ahi dansarão athe depois da meya noute, sem que dali sahicem [...]".

 

Professor Leandro Correia, Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions.

Faith, thank you so much for accepting to be interviewed.

 

It's a pleasure, Julieta. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to speak to your readers.

 

JR: Your story is about the Theodosian Empress Athenais set in Constantinople in AD 419. To be consort of the Roman emperor, she is required to convert to Christianity. How old is Athenais now? What is her former religion?

 

Faith Justice: Athenais is a nineteen year old orphan, the daughter of a scholar who educated her in philosophy, rhetoric, history and other studies beyond what most girls of her class learned. Because she was not baptized in the Nicene Christian church, she was considered a "pagan" by Christian standards although she likely did not believe in multiple gods. Philosophers of the day believed in a single creative force that brought the world into being and was unknowable by the vast majority of people at the time. A few philosophers believed they could see the face of God by meditation and study of mathematics.

When Athenais was baptized into the Christian Church, she took the name Aelia Eudocia but was still called Athenais by family and friends. I continued to use Athenais in my story because her baptismal name is shared with several other Theodosian women and I didn't want people to be confused. Folks who want to look her up in the history books should search for Aelia Eudocia Augusta.

 

 

JR: Why is the emperor interested in marrying her?

 

Faith Justice: Theodosian II (grandson of Theodosius the Great) was twenty and looking for a wife to continue the dynasty. There's a sweet myth about their meeting. Supposedly when her father died, he left all his money to Athenais' two brothers saying "your face will be your fortune." Athenais went to Constantinople to contest the will and pleaded so eloquently that Empress Pulcheria (Theodosius' sister and protagonist of Dawn Empress, the second book in the series) thought Athenais would be a fit consort for her brother. Pulcheria arranged for them to meet. They fell in love and happily married.

That story is considered apocryphal by most historians. It's much more likely that an out-of-power faction of nobles took advantage of Pulcheria's distraction by a war with Persia to introduce Athenais to an impressionable Theodosius. However, both Pulcheria and Theodosius were almost fanatically religious, so Athenais had to convert to be married. They did seem happy together in the first years of their marriage.

 

 

JR: Once married and living in Constantinople, how did Athenais make her stamp on this religious court?

 

Faith Justice: Athenais was an accomplished poet and scholar. More of her writing survived into the modern day, than any other ancient female author, including the better-known poet Sappho. You can read her translated extant work in In Her Own Words: the Life and Poetry of Aelia Eudocia by Brian P. Sowers. Where her sister-in-law built and dedicated churches, Athenais held salons for writers, musicians and artists and promoted their work throughout her life. She endowed over thirty chairs in rhetoric, law, and mathematics at the Constantinople University in order to bring it up to the standards of a capital learning institution. Some of those scholars went on to help her husband compile the Theodosian Code—a signal accomplishment of his reign.

 

JR: It sounds like she had a lovely marriage and productive life. How was she a Rebel Empress?

 

Faith Justice: Athenais and Pulcheria fought throughout the marriage for influence and control of a weak-willed Theodosius. Due to a shared traumatic childhood, Pulcheria was his closest advisor and resented Athenais' presence. However, she acknowledged the need for an heir. After many years and three pregnancies, Athenais had only one surviving daughter and her influence over Theodosius waned.

She showed her spirit and independence on a number of occasions, but she finally broke with the court mid-life and moved to Jerusalem where she actively engaged with the people and religious institutions. She is credited with "rebuilding Jerusalem," by expanding and rebuilding its walls, churches, and numerous shelters for the poor and pilgrims. She sided with the city when it refused to take the court's side in a religious dispute which resulted in armed conflict. She eventually gave up her rebellion and religious "heresy" after both Theodosius and Pulcheria had died.

 

Faith, I very much appreciate your answers.

Thanks again for having me, Julieta!

JULIETA RODRIGUES: Beyond the Bukubuk Tree is a story we've discussed before, inspired by your uncle you suspected was homosexual. You explore emotional truths in your novel. Can you discuss the value of exposing those truths for both the writer and the reader?

 

LORETTA GOLDBERG: Absolutely. I wanted to convey two emotional truths: the beauty of Rabaul, which has a quality of enchantment as it nestles between active volcanoes and lush green flora, and the conflict between love and tradition during wartime. My intuitive sense of my uncle's unresolved struggles inspired the character of Jake and his relationship with another man. While I never met my uncle, family anecdotes suggest that he was conflicted about his sexuality. His family were orthodox Jews. I felt a deep connection to his unspoken pain. Sharing this truth in fiction allows readers to connect with characters on a deeper level.
 
JR: You explore the theme of Jewish values conflicting with desires. Why did you choose to release the novel during Pride Month?

LG: Jake's struggle with his identity felt like a natural fit for the story. It's a historical fact that the Australian Army in mainland New Guinea investigated reports of male-male intimacy between its soldiers. It tightened rules against "unnatural practices" two years after Jake's service. Gay soldiers gave their full capabilities to their country like any other soldier. Like Alan Turing. Release during Pride Month feels appropriate as a tribute to diverse identities.
 
JR: You write about the under-resourced Lark Force. What did your uncle experience during this time?
LG: The Lark Force story is a well-known Australian tragedy. I wanted to bring it to a wider audience. Their abandonment by the Australian government must have been devastating for the soldiers when they grasped, at their moment of peril, that there never had been a plan to reinforce or rescue them. No Dunkirk for them. I wanted to use fiction to bring that moment of revelation to life.  How would my uncle have felt? Military records show that he was the last of Lark Force's four doctors retreating. Jake's journey mirrors that reality, and there's a vignette exploring his feelings.

 

JR: The best writers expose truths, perhaps because they cultivate it in their own lives. Can you elaborate on this point?
LG: I think we present varied faces of ourselves in public to function within social norms. A 98-year-old retired nurse friend of mine once told me that she can spot a person who's never had to work for a living by their personality, that they never had to smooth off the spikes in their reactions to other people to keep a job. I know what she means. But it's critical to be honest with yourself. I don't think you can hide who you are in writing fiction. Bits of you sneak into your characters, especially through the limitations of their emotional and spiritual range. I had a few 'ouches' at sides of me I exposed in my first novel.

 

JR: Why are the sex scenes in Beyond the Bukubuk Tree more explicit than in your first novel?
LG: The role of sex was different in each story. In the 16th century, people identified themselves by social class, religion and occupation. Today, sexuality is a bigger part of personal identity. For Jake and Wip, physical intimacy deepens their bond. The details of their different histories matter.

 

JR: Jake dies at the novel's end. Were you worried about upsetting readers?
LG: War is brutal. While some readers might prefer a happy ending in war fiction, I felt a more realistic portrayal was crucial. Hopefully, Jake's character will stay with readers especially because of his tragic fate. Your favorite people don't always come back from war. That's the point.

 

JR: Do you consider Beyond the Bukubuk Tree better than your first novel?
LG: It's not for me to say which is better. Beyond is shorter and explores a familiar historical period. I hope my writing has improved, but that's for readers to decide. I did take more risks in Beyond, like including a Tolai character's perspective on a war between white and Japanese colonists.

 

JR: Thank you, Loretta, for sharing your thoughts with us!
LG: Thank you for having me and for such thoughtful questions.
 
Universal buy link. https://mybook.to/bukubuk

 

Paperback available through any good bookstore.

 

ISBN 978-84-122325-8-5

 

ASIN B0D4MH8D63

 

https://lorettagoldberg.com

 

Facebook.com/LorettaGoldbergAuthor

 

LinkedIn

 

Instagram@LorettaGoldbergWriter

Julieta Rodrigues: "You translated into English Orhan Pamuk's novel The White Castle, a translation that won the inaugural Independent Foreign Fiction Prize. Could you describe how you met him?"

 

Victoria Holbrook: "I met him when his wife attended a class I taught at Columbia University in the mid-1980s, and the three of us became friends."

 

Julieta Rodrigues: "You are also responsible for the masterly translation of Beauty and Love, the long poem by Shaikh Galib/Şeyh Galıp (1757–1799), published in 1782. This is a narrative poem in rhyming couplets. A close friend of his, Galib is said to have influenced Sultan Selim III's reforms. Can you tell us a bit more about the concepts of Beauty and Love in Gabib's work?" 

 

Victoria Holbrook: "In Galip's work, Beauty and Love function both as divine qualities and as a young woman and a young man. Beauty as a divine quality is that which is loved, but that does not mean understood. At first, the character Love is immature, and the journey he takes represents a progressive development in his experience of the divine quality of beauty."

 

Julieta Rodrigues: "Besides your own academic work, your translations are famous. I would like to ask: what in your view is the most important aspect of translation?  What authors write in one language can be equally good in another? How are you able to express the author's voice, something that completely transcends words?"

 

Victoria Holbrook: "Translation is an art. I can no more explain it than a pianist can explain how to interpret a classical piece. Many things come together to make a kind of magic. One has to be good with words. I can say that I always take the author seriously. If I don't understand something, I do not think to myself, "Oh, s/he didn't mean to say that, s/he actually meant to say such-and-such." I keep trying to understand. As for writing in another language, it is known to be very rare for authors who grow up speaking one language to write well in another. Joseph Conrad is the great example."

 JAR: Tal como Zadie Smith - ou eu própria – você assume-se neste livro como um escritor fascinado pelo estudo da biografia. Neste caso, a figura de um escritor português do Séc XIX, Almeida Garrett, e de sua mulher Luísa, no período em que estes habitam Bruxelas. É uma cidade que você conhece bem, pois também viveu aí parte da sua vida. Descreva-nos um pouco o seu processo criativo: o que o conduziu a esta escrita intimista?

 

Amadeu Lopes Sabino: Eu não diria que a minha escrita é intimista. Escrevo tudo o que sinto, como disse Stendhal. E escrevo tudo o que vejo. Vi, encontrei, compreendi Garrett em Bruxelas. Olhei mais para ele do que para o meu íntimo. Vivemos, eu e ele, espaços e experiências similares em Bruxelas, hoje a capital da Europa, papel que Leopoldo I já pretendia para Bruxelas no tempo em que Garrett aí esteve. O que me interessa na biografia é meter-me na pele do biografado e viver o que ele viveu. E como viveu. Com Garrett, o processo foi fácil. A empatia, a simpatia, as vivências, o pensamento, tudo nos aproximava. Mas também me meto na pele de outros personagens dos meus livros, biografados ou pura e simplesmente ficcionados. Alguns pouco frequentáveis e nada estimáveis. Nesse sentido, faço o que faz o polícia, o detetive ou o ladrão: meto-me na pele daquele que persigo. Vivo a vida do outro, deixo a minha para outros espaços, que não a escrita.

 

JAR: Diz Zadie Smith num artigo intitulado In Defense of Fiction no New York Review of books, "...over time, I have striven to feel less shame about my compulsive interest in the lives of others and the multiple voices in my head". De facto, é com todos nós que nos interessamos por biografia. No diálogo final do romance, entre o cocheiro e Almeida Garrett, este rejeita ouvir o que aquele tem para lhe dizer. As palavras do cocheiro são por demais ameaçadoras, a verdade é qualquer coisa com que Garret não é capaz de conviver. E por isso você refere que o grande intimo de Almeida Garrett em Bruxelas é o Diabo. Explique-nos: que voz é esta?

 

Amadeu Lopes Sabino: A voz? As vozes! A cabeça de cada um de nós está cheia de vozes, a do escritor como a de toda a gente. A literatura ordena essas vozes e escolhe uma, outra ou várias. Escrevendo, o autor pode viver mais do que uma vida; vivendo apenas, vive uma só. Por vezes, uma das vozes é incómoda, destrutiva, e rejeitamo-la. É o caso do grilo-consciência de Pinóquio. Um personagem de outro dos meus livros afirma que a verdade é uma questão para padres e polícias, a ele não lhe interessa. A verdade era certamente insuportável, totalmente insuportável, antes de Freud. Hoje, há terapias que nos ajudam a suportá-la. Mas pode encarnar no Diabo, no Mal absoluto. Assim acontecia com o Garrett do meu livro, que detestava e temia a verdade. Et pour cause!

 

Em Felix Mikailovitch, outro dos meus livros em que Bruxelas é o cenário, o protagonista, que vive um adultério feliz em paralelo com o casamento (que, bem vistas as coisa, também é feliz), tem razões de sobra para preferir recusar a verdade. Nua e crua, sem  o manto diáfano da fantasia de que falava Eça, a verdade significaria, para os personagens de Felix Mikailovitch, o desastre e a regra quotidiana do desassossego. Entendida enquanto realidade dos factos, a verdade é um lugar comum a evitar. No interrogatório a que Pilatos o submete, o próprio Cristo a define ironicamente através de uma tautologia: Veritas est quod est. A preocupação com a verdade não é a especialidade dos personagens dos meus livros. Nesta medida, sou um escritor realista.

 

JAR: Linda Santos Costa diz que A Lua de Bruxelas é uma meditação romanceada sobre o nosso país – o que me parece bastante acertado. Garrett deixa a Bélgica derrotado sob o ponto de vista pessoal e profissional. Assim sendo, o que acontece aos dois personagens principais deste livro depois da saida da Bélgica? Como é que Garret sobrevive? E em particular, o que se passa com a bela Luísa - qual Madame Bovary do contexto nacional? Em suma, como é que a sua ficção elucida a vida real dos personagens?

 

Amadeu Lopes Sabino: Pura e simplesmente não sei. Nunca sei o que se passa com os personagens dos meus livros depois da palavra FIM. Como em Casablanca, de Michael Curtiz, o que se passa com Rick e com Ilse? Os meus livros elucidam algo sobre o nosso país? Talvez. O Portugal de hoje repete os erros do passado e os do futuro. Falar de Portugal é fácil: não é necessária muita imaginação.

 

JAR: Apenas um à parte em relação ao que refere: é fascinante verificar como os portugueses continuam a criar as suas próprias amarras e vivem paralisados dentro delas. Todo o pensamento é circular, concêntrico. Uma vez escrevi um poema sobre este estado de espírito. Quando o encontrar, vou inclui-lo aqui. 

 

 

Amadeu, muito obrigada por mais esta conversa. Sei que está de novo a escrever, boa sorte! Julieta